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Thread: More Boutiques Opening!

  1. #51
    Senior Member Bounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ticktoc View Post
    I was back in Manchester last Saturday watch hunting with my son, Trafford Centre first and then on into the city centre.
    Beaverbrooks at the Trafford Centre had probably the most Bremont's I've seen displayed there, a good selection.
    Had a look at the latest moonwatch and a bi-metal seamaster, looked at Breitling store across the way and Tudor, but Rolex in Goldsmiths not a gents watch to be seen and don't know when they will receive any new stock everything on wait list, so into the city where we had much the same experience.
    Getting rid of multiple outlets by Rolex certainly seems to have worked, not only are their sports watches on wait lists but every other gents model now as well. Not that they were on his wish list anyhow we just thought we would have a look (or not) as you do.
    So open to opinions, with a £10k + or - budget what would some of you guys be tempted by, he has a solo at the moment, no brands off the radar.
    Didn't know Goldsmiths and Mapin and Webb were under the WOS banner.
    I have been down the Rolex route many times & owned too many to mention.

    They are great watches, but there are watches out there that are just as good if not better for less money now (Bremont, Omega, Panerai, Tudor & IWC to name just a few).

    Another concern of mine was that now they are hard to get & the prices are sky high used, you can become a target for some undesirable who doesn't give a care for your welfare.

    I personally would rather own a selection of different watches up to the value of 10K than one. I could get a ALT1-WT & an MB III plus a CW for that money & be a lot happier.

    If you want to buy a watch, look at it & see the value rise, then by all means go Rolex, but if you really want to enjoy what you are wearing look elsewhere.

  2. #52
    He was only curious regarding Rolex and as you say and as I pointed out to him, the prices have gone through the roof.
    He is leaning towards the speedy and the bi metal seamaster.

  3. #53
    Both excellent watches, I love my Seamaster its such a versatile watch, can be worn with a suit, jeans and a t shirt, or doing the garden.
    Same as my bremonts, but my advice, as he is spending some well saved cash, is buy what he enjoys and will look down on his wrist and bring a smile to his face.

    Equally enjoy the father son watch shopping, I miss the days of doing that with my dad.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Bounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ticktoc View Post
    He was only curious regarding Rolex and as you say and as I pointed out to him, the prices have gone through the roof.
    He is leaning towards the speedy and the bi metal seamaster.
    The Speedy is an amazing watch, I had one years ago & mistakenly sold it, I bought another one about 3 years ago with the larger box & accessories, very good value for money.
    I can't comment on the Bi metal Seamaster, but my friend has the newer ceramic Seamaster & he wears it everywhere.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticktoc View Post
    Getting rid of multiple outlets by Rolex certainly seems to have worked, not only are their sports watches on wait lists but every other gents model now as well. Not that they were on his wish list anyhow we just thought we would have a look (or not) as you do.
    I've seen it mentioned before that Rolex getting rid of multiple outlets is what has increased the waiting lists. I really don't follow the logic. Surely stifling supply is what increases waiting lists, assuming a demand for the watches of course?

    regarding the £10k budget for a watch, I would hope that someone spending that much already has a good idea of what they want to spend it on. That said, with that kind of budget, for mainstream models I would agree with everyone else. I don't like mainstream and I really don't like Rolex. So looking at Bremont I would consider both the Hawking which is current or more so, the Supersonic pre owned. Looking elsewhere I would have to say Grand Seiko. The SLGH005 'birch' is a stunning watch and well under budget. I recently heard it referred to as "the best thing that could ever be done with a lump of stainless steel". Can't say fairer than that.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperRichieM View Post
    I posted the Boutique news on the Christopher Ward forum and (so far) it's been a very positive response. I think my fears have been put to bed and see it as a good move.
    I've read that thread and I agree that it seems to be a very positive response which is odd on a forum where the signature brand is one without any high street stores.

    reading between the lines, the responses seem to confirm my fears. Most of the positive responses seem to focus on Bremont becoming a high street brand and not a luxury brand. Comments about discounts are evident which you don't hope for with a luxury brand (Rolex, Patek AP etc.).

    based on that thread, I can see sales increasing and the residual value of the watches decreasing. Whether that's a good thing is a matter of perspective.

  7. #57
    Moderator RedsBluesGreens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post

    based on that thread, I can see sales increasing and the residual value of the watches decreasing. Whether that's a good thing is a matter of perspective.
    I had initially hoped that the boutique opening (and potentially therefore a move away from an AD structure, in time) would help ‘shore up’ the brand and limit - or even stop - the decline in prices we are seeing on the preloved market. It’s the one thing that really harms Bremont, IMO.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Bounce View Post
    Another concern of mine was that now they are hard to get & the prices are sky high used, you can become a target for some undesirable who doesn't give a care for your welfare.
    what's interesting about that comment would make a good conversation over a few beers. For whatever reason, Rolex, Patek, AP and possibly a couple of other brands have seen a huge increase in demand for no obvious reason. I have theories but that's for another post. What's more interesting is that these brands have become less about the watch and more about the intrinsic value. For long term owners and genuine fans that can only be a good thing but as you've rightly said, it makes them a target for criminals. However, what seems to be forgotten is that in order for criminals to prosper, there have to be other criminals willing to buy the stolen goods and that includes the end user. Now obviously there will be owners who get duped into buying a stolen luxury watch but I suspect that there will also be a lot of owners who buy these stolen watches knowing full well that they are stolen. Brings an interesting perspective to what could be thought about certain brands and some of their owners.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBluesGreens View Post
    I had initially hoped that the boutique opening (and potentially therefore a move away from an AD structure, in time) would help ‘shore up’ the brand and limit - or even stop - the decline in prices we are seeing on the preloved market. It’s the one thing that really harms Bremont, IMO.

    I agree in principle but the only way for that to happen in my opinion is for the boutiques to be owned outright by Bremont and for no discounting to take place. It seems that won't be the case.

    What I also think harms Bremonts residual values in a big way is the Special Projects/Military side. I have two main issues with this. The first is that reputedly those watches are sold to their owners at a major discount over retail. In my opinion that shouldn't happen and it's entirely a sales tactic by Bremont. It should be enough that the watches can be customised to honour the particular group of people and they should be sold at full retail. The second issue is linked to the first. I have seen on more than one occasion that the same group of people create a second batch of watches with a slightly different design after a small time period. I suspect that many of those people will then sell the first watch and hold on to the second (would seem evident from watches for sale online). Given that the watches for sale were originally sold at well below retail, they can then be sold on at a profit but below retail effectively increasing the number of a type of watch on the pre-owned market at a low value.

    I've noticed recently that the pre-owned prices for limited edition watches are slowly increasing. Hopefully that's an ongoing trend but it's unlikely to follow through to the mainstream watches.

    on the subject of boutiques, I had an interesting conversation yesterday in what I thought was a boutique but is in fact a showroom. Apparently the difference is that a showroom has one brand but is mostly controlled by the high street retailer. A boutique apparently looks the same but the control of the 'showroom' is entirely with the brand except that sales still go through the high street retailer. To the retail customer there's very little, if any, noticeable difference. Certainly between the two places I was comparing there was no obvious difference. I imagine that means that the Bremont boutiques will effectively be attached to high street shops (Ernest Jones I guess) but will be controlled in the most part by Bremont. I guess we'll see how that works out.

    (curiously, when I mentioned that Bremont were opening three boutiques with the Signet group, the salesman I was speaking to said "Oh?" and it wasn't in a good way)

  10. #60
    Moderator RedsBluesGreens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theancientmariner View Post
    I agree in principle but the only way for that to happen in my opinion is for the boutiques to be owned outright by Bremont and for no discounting to take place. It seems that won't be the case.

    What I also think harms Bremonts residual values in a big way is the Special Projects/Military side. I have two main issues with this. The first is that reputedly those watches are sold to their owners at a major discount over retail. In my opinion that shouldn't happen and it's entirely a sales tactic by Bremont. It should be enough that the watches can be customised to honour the particular group of people and they should be sold at full retail. The second issue is linked to the first. I have seen on more than one occasion that the same group of people create a second batch of watches with a slightly different design after a small time period. I suspect that many of those people will then sell the first watch and hold on to the second (would seem evident from watches for sale online). Given that the watches for sale were originally sold at well below retail, they can then be sold on at a profit but below retail effectively increasing the number of a type of watch on the pre-owned market at a low value.

    I've noticed recently that the pre-owned prices for limited edition watches are slowly increasing. Hopefully that's an ongoing trend but it's unlikely to follow through to the mainstream watches.

    on the subject of boutiques, I had an interesting conversation yesterday in what I thought was a boutique but is in fact a showroom. Apparently the difference is that a showroom has one brand but is mostly controlled by the high street retailer. A boutique apparently looks the same but the control of the 'showroom' is entirely with the brand except that sales still go through the high street retailer. To the retail customer there's very little, if any, noticeable difference. Certainly between the two places I was comparing there was no obvious difference. I imagine that means that the Bremont boutiques will effectively be attached to high street shops (Ernest Jones I guess) but will be controlled in the most part by Bremont. I guess we'll see how that works out.

    (curiously, when I mentioned that Bremont were opening three boutiques with the Signet group, the salesman I was speaking to said "Oh?" and it wasn't in a good way)
    Good post, thanks! Totally agreed.

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