Bremont MB1.5

[AM94]

Hello chaps, was hoping for a little guidance on value of a Bremont MB1.5

I have owned this one from almost new (the first owner purchased it from you and only held onto it for a few months).

Soon after receiving it, I had a minor issue with something (I cannot recall what) and it was returned to Bremont, who resolved the issue and returned it in pristine condition - which isn't surprising seeing as it was 'mint' when it was sent to them.

I have not worn it since then; it has sat in my safe and been wound periodically, and therefore is in the same condition it was six-seven years ago. Thus, the watch in question is a pristine condition, full set, MB1.5.

The last sales figure I was told of was circa £5,000 (GBP) in 2015 and I’d be interested to know if anyone has any information on a more recent European sale/value. I believe only 20 were made; hence, they don’t come up for sale often.

[RedsBluesGreens]

AM94, thanks for posting and coming here with your question!

I'm going to start off by saying that the following is my opinion, and thus always happy to be corrected.

As usual with these types of threads, it is very tricky to ascertain a true price for the item, as the seller tends to always want 'top end' pricing for their watch. As I am sure you are aware, the MB1.5 is not alone in being a limited edition (or exclusive) derivative of the MBII - there have been several over the years, whether for employees of Martin-Baker, Authorised Dealers & Forums, or for the military.

The most exclusive of all the Martin-Baker series of watches is, probably fairly obviously, the MB1 (I appreciate that you likely know all of the above, but it is just to add a bit of context for those who may read this and do not.)

Now, just to make a point before I go on to what I believe the potential value of your watch is: rare or exclusive does not always mean expensive.

As you rightly say, only 20 of the MB1.5 were made, so getting another one is going to be pretty tricky should you sell. As for value though, I'd suggest that £5k was being very optimistic and if that offer was on the table, to take it. I would place a more realistic price of between £3-4k on the watch (the upper end offering a marginal increase over the RRP of the current MBII, which I think is fair.)

J.

[AM94]

Hi J,

Thanks for the response.

I was offered £5k by a dealer last year for it but had no intention of selling. I have found one, that seems to be, for sale in the USA, which is in lesser condition and asking the equivalent of circa £5.5 with taxes.

I’m trying to sort out my insurance and would rather not over insure but equally, I’d like to know what the true replacement value is. I understand your logic but given I have been offered £5k by a U.K. dealer, albeit last year, I would assume I would have to pay at least that to replace it (if I could find a private sale) or £6k+ via a dealer.

[RedsBluesGreens]

Thanks for the response.

My pleasure.

I’m trying to sort out my insurance and would rather not over insure but equally, I’d like to know what the true replacement value is. I understand your logic but given I have been offered £5k by a U.K. dealer, albeit last year, I would assume I would have to pay at least that to replace it (if I could find a private sale) or £6k+ via a dealer.

The only one I have found for sale recently is from the US - at an AD who frequents this forum, Topper Fine Jewellers. They are asking $6299 with a collection of (unworn) straps with deployment buckles (see item description below):

Up for sale is one of the rare MB 1.5 watches. Limited to only 20 watches, this watch features a 43mm case and 100m of water resistance. The watch head is in 97% condition. It has been upgraded and features many watch bands. Included are two unworn black and orange leather on deployant clasp. The band is in 90% condition due to creasing on the leather. Originally purchased in May 2014, this watch comes with inner and outer box, instruction manual, warranty card, changing tool, extra straps and the one year Topper Pre-owned Select warranty.

So, a quick Google search tells me that $6299 equates to just over £4400. Take off the costs of the straps, deployments etc and you're around about my original estimate of £4k. Bare in mind they are going to be making money at that price, too.

Can you share where you've found the watch for £5.5k? I'd be very interested to have a look at that. In the politest way possible, I would call that price a little optimistic.

J.

[AM94]

Hi J,

We’re talking at cross purpose.

That was the watch I found: $6,299 USD, which equates to £4,425 at today’s exchange rate.

£4,425 x 20% VAT = £885.00
£4,425 + £885.00 = £5,310.00

I rounded up for post and insurance.

I also have extra unworn straps with mine, which I have ignored in terms of value, but do believe the pristine condition of mine had an effect on value.

As per my previous post, valuing it at less than £5k for insurance would seem foolish because I don’t believe I could replace it for less. Even the US watch would cost me more than that value.

[RedsBluesGreens]

That was the watch I found: $6,299 USD, which equates to £4,425 at today’s exchange rate.

£4,425 x 20% VAT = £885.00
£4,425 + £885.00 = £5,310.00

I rounded up for post and insurance.

Sorry, but I'm struggling to see that. If you lived in the US, walked in to the AD and paid for the watch, you would be paying $6299 (c. £4200) - bringing VAT in the equation here isn't overly relevant, as the actual sticker price for the watch is $6299.

I also have extra unworn straps with mine, which I have ignored in terms of value, but do believe the pristine condition of mine had an effect on value.

As per my previous post, valuing it at less than £5k for insurance would seem foolish because I don’t believe I could replace it for less. Even the US watch would cost me more than that value.

Whilst you may not be taking the straps in to account, the price at Toppers almost certainly is. Also, something worth noting here is the way Toppers grade their watches. They state 97%, the definition of which is:

A pre-owned watch that is in very nearly perfect condition. Signs of wear are visible with a low powered loupe. May be a watch that is in LNIB condition but not accompanied by the factory box(es) or documentation. May refer to an older watch that has been restored, so long as the restoration returned the watch to very nearly pristine factory original condition. Working perfectly, keeping excellent time, needs nothing. 97-99%

Based on the above, I do believe the condition of this watch and yours likely differs by very little, therefore the price will be virtually identical. The difference between 'mint' and 'nearly perfect' in an AD's cabinet is likely only going to be a matter of £20-50. When it comes to insurance value though, you can always 'play it safe' and insure it for an increased price - and pay the associated premiums.

I think we should invite other members' views on this or else we risk treading over the same ground. It has provided some interesting discussion thus far, though!

J.

[chipbutty55]

I guess the easiest way to get a value for insurance is to use the original RRP for the piece, as you will have the receipt as proof of price paid, which gives you piece of mind that this at least covers you for getting your money back should anything happen.

If you feel the value of the piece has increased then I guess this has to be proven by recent sales. If there have been any, then I guess it depends on how the insurance company view the sale and the price paid.
They may, like Jake said just look at the ticketed price and if outside the UK, simply convert to £ and use that as the value.
They may, as you say, add Vat & postage, if the item is outside the EU, to get a price "in-hand" for you to replace.
I dont know the answer to this, if anyone works for an insurer, they may be able to help with that!

[theancientmariner]

Unfortunately my view (as an outsider?) is that I don't see any value over and above a standard MBII. I gather that the MB1.5 is a limited edition model specifically aimed at members of the ATG forum. If that holds some merit for a potential buyer then they may increase their offer but for the vast majority I imagine that a brand new MBII would hold more appeal than than a pre-owned MB1.5. On that basis I'd agree with RedsBluesGreens assessment of value.

From an insurance perspective I would suggest insuring it for slightly more than you believe it's worth. If it came to a claim I imagine that the insurers would assess the value anyway and offer what they believe to be the correct value - maybe?

[AM94]

In speaking with the insurance company today, they confirmed that in the case of the loss of a limited edition piece, they would pay the total value (item and any relevant taxes, fees (postage/insurance)) to replace the item. Therefore, if the only equivalent item was located outside the UK, the would pay the item price, and where applicable, VAT and shipping cost. Hence, using the one for sale in the USA as an example, they would pay c£5,310 + shipping costs.

As for people comparing the MBII and the MB1.5 - I guess it boils down to personal opinion. I personally value the fact it is a bridge between the MB1 and the standard version. I prefer the MB1 dial and hands over and above the civilian version and considering you cannot easily buy the dial or hand combination, that in itself has appeal.

I appreciate the assistance and thank you for your views on the current value.

[RedsBluesGreens]

As for people comparing the MBII and the MB1.5 - I guess it boils down to personal opinion. I personally value the fact it is a bridge between the MB1 and the standard version. I prefer the MB1 dial and hands over and above the civilian version and considering you cannot easily buy the dial or hand combination, that in itself has appeal.

Just a point of note for those who want to learn more about these rare watches (I am sure you are aware of this, AM) - the MB1.5 does not have the dial from the MB1, it is a standard MBII dial. The MB1 dial as only appeared on a very limited run of other watches, aside from the MB1, which were made for Martin-Baker employees and named the MB1.25.

The features borrowed from the MB1 and used on the MB1.5 are the chapter ring with yellow numbers and the solid yellow seconds hand.



J.